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To: keydist@cafax.se
From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:43:40 -0500
Delivery-Date: Fri Jan 4 21:45:33 2002
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jan 2002 12:59:08 EST." <3C35ED6C.836FF61D@sun.com>
Sender: owner-keydist@cafax.se
Subject: Re: From whence we came...

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>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Hanna <steve.hanna@sun.com> writes:
    Steve> Derek Atkins wrote:
    >> My point is that suggesting that all keys be "certificates (in the
    >> PGP/X.509 sense of the word)" is doing a disservice to the community.
    >> You are basically telling SSH and FreeS/WAN to piss off, and I
    >> believe that is not only unfair but downright wrong. :)

    Steve> That's certainly not what I intended.

    Steve> Let me review where I think we are. SSH uses preconfigured keys.
    Steve> You want a more scalable and less error-prone mechanism for securely
    Steve> distributing keys. We're discussing various options. The primary
    Steve> candidates seem to be:

    Steve> 1) storing keys in DNS, authenticated with DNSSEC
    Steve> 2) certificates (X.509, PGP, or whatever), stored in DNS
    Steve> 3) certificates, exchanged in application protocols
    Steve> 4) certificates, stored in some other location (like an LDAP
    Steve>    directory)

    Steve> I pointed out that one big disadvantage of solution 1) is that
    Steve> DNSSEC uses a top-down trust model with a single root. That
    Steve> may be OK for DNS, but it's a bummer for many other applications
    Steve> (including SSH, I would suggest).
  
  Why?

  I control sandelman.ottawa.on.ca. I have that control based upon DNS.

  I put keys in for my hosts into DNS. While DNS may have a single ., it may
be that I'll never trust it. I *do* however, trust the key at sandelman.ottawa.on.ca. 
(i.e. I configure all my hosts to all trust it). 
  This works just fine for my users. They no longer need to worry when they
login to a host they have never logged into before if the host is
correct. 

  If I give you an account on a machine here then we may have to deal with
cross-enterprise trust. We either have a bilateral agreement (could be TSIG)
or we trust a third party. 
  But, if you don't trust me (directly or indirectly) to give you the A
record, then why would you trust any system to provide you with the public
key?

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

  
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Comment: Finger me for keys

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