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minutes@ietf.org
From:
David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net>
Date:
Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:39:24 -0700
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Subject:
draft vienna minutes (sorry about the delay)
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MINUTES FROM THE DNSOP WG
57th IETF, Vienna, Austria
Date: Monday, July 14, 2003 15:30-17:30 (Hall NO)
Chairs: David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net>
Rob Austein <sra@hactrn.net>
Minutes by: Lars-Johan Liman <liman@autonomica.se>
Version: $Id: minutes-vienna,v 1.3 2003/07/15 10:19:47 liman Exp $
#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# DRAFT AGENDA
Agenda Bashing 5 minutes
Meyer/all
Status of outstanding drafts 10 minutes
Meyer/Austein
(i). Farewell to drafts this WG doesn't need to think about anymore
draft-ietf-dnsop-hardie-shared-root-server-07.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-v6-name-space-fragmentation-02.txt
draft-ihren-dnsop-interim-signed-root-02.txt
draft-ihren-dnsop-v6-name-space-fragment-01.txt
(ii). WG drafts which are ready for last call
draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-transport-guidelines-00.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-01.txt (?)
(iii). Active WG drafts
draft-ietf-dnsop-bad-dns-res-01.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-inaddr-required-04.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-interim-signed-root-01.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-02.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-ohta-shared-root-server-02.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-00.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-01.txt [unless handled in (ii). above]
(iv). Expired WG drafts
draft-ietf-dnsop-dontpublish-unreachable-03.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-keyhand-04.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-resolver-rollover-00.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-rollover-01.txt
(v). Active individual drafts
draft-durand-dnsop-dynreverse-00.txt
draft-hall-dns-data-03.txt
draft-jeong-ipv6-ra-dns-autoconf-00.txt
draft-kato-dnsop-local-zones-00.txt
draft-morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00.txt
draft-park-ipv6-extensions-dns-pnp-00.txt
draft-warnicke-network-dns-resolution-02.txt
draft-yasuhiro-dnsop-increasing-dns-server-00.txt
IPv6 DNS Discovery -- Framing the discussion 15 minutes
Rob Austein
IPv6 DNS Discovery, and why it is important 10 minutes
Bob Hinden
IPv6 Router Advertisement based DNS Autoconfiguration 10 minutes
draft-jeong-ipv6-ra-dns-autoconf-00.txt
Jaehoon Jeong
IPv6 Router Advertisement DNS resolver Option 10 minutes
draft-beloeil-ipv6-dns-resolver-option-01.txt
Luc Beloeil
Discussion 20 minutes
A Suggested Scheme for DNS Resolution of Networks and Gateways 10 minutes
draft-warnicke-network-dns-resolution-02.txt
Edward Warnicke
Considerations for DNS Resource Records 10 minutes
draft-hall-dns-data-03.txt
Eric Hall
IPv6 Extensions for DNS Plug and Play 10 minutes
draft-park-ipv6-extensions-dns-pnp-00.txt
Syam Madanapalli
Outstanding issues in draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-02.txt 10 minutes
Alain Durand
#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# MINUTES
** AGENDA BASHING **
The agenda was adjusted slightly, by adding short time slots to give
room for Daniel Karrenberg to bring up issues with the .LOCAL top
level domain and its impact on the root name servers, and for
Ralph Droms to make a presentation about DHCP.
** STATUS OF OUTSTANDING DRAFTS **
(i). Farewell to drafts this WG doesn't need to think about anymore
draft-ietf-dnsop-hardie-shared-root-server-07.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-v6-name-space-fragmentation-02.txt
draft-ihren-dnsop-interim-signed-root-02.txt
draft-ihren-dnsop-v6-name-space-fragment-01.txt
The above drafts were pronounced dead and taken off the agenda of the
working group.
(ii). WG drafts which are ready for last call
draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-transport-guidelines-00.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-01.txt (?)
No new issues were presented. The chairs will take the drafts to WG
last call.
(iii). Active WG drafts
draft-ietf-dnsop-bad-dns-res-01.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-inaddr-required-04.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-interim-signed-root-01.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-02.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-ohta-shared-root-server-02.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-00.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-01.txt [unless handled in (ii). above]
There was no discussion during the session. These drafts are Still
active.
(iv). Expired WG drafts
draft-ietf-dnsop-dontpublish-unreachable-03.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-keyhand-04.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-resolver-rollover-00.txt
draft-ietf-dnsop-rollover-01.txt
No one spoke in favour of revival of any of these. The chairs'
approach is to let them die.
(v). Active individual drafts
draft-durand-dnsop-dynreverse-00.txt
draft-jeong-ipv6-ra-dns-autoconf-00.txt
draft-kato-dnsop-local-zones-00.txt
draft-morishita-dnsop-misbehavior-against-aaaa-00.txt
draft-park-ipv6-extensions-dns-pnp-00.txt
draft-yasuhiro-dnsop-increasing-dns-server-00.txt
The above drafts were deemed still active, but will remain individual
drafts for the time being.
> draft-hall-dns-data-03.txt
> draft-warnicke-network-dns-resolution-02.txt
The above drafts were decided to be under serious consideration to
become WG documents.
** IPV6 DNS DISCOVERY -- FRAMING THE DISCUSSION **
Rob Austein made a presentation to try to set the framework for the
discussion. The presentation is found in the meeting archives.
Rob tried to clarify and enumerate the underlying generic problems
faced by a DNS consumer node.
See presentation for details.
Ralph Droms commented that the trust model has changed between IPv4
and IPv6: the IPv4 address is obviously owned by DHCP server, but in
an IPv6 auto-configure scenario the "host" part of the address is "owned"
by the host, and the "prefix" part is "owned" by the upstream router.
** IPV6 DNS DISCOVERY, AND WHY IT IS IMPORTANT **
Bob Hinden made a presentation trying to convey the message about why
DNS discovery is important. The presentation is found in the meeting
archives.
Bob went through the different steps in a DNS consumer's life,
identifying a number of steps where DNS discovery is necessary, and
identifying a couple of different methods to achieve it.
See presentation for details.
There was a note from audience that there is an auto-registration draft
also in the DNSEXT WG.
Ted Lemon also commented that the presentation seemed to conveyed the
message that overloading service location on names or addresses is a
positive thing, which he disagreed with. He was seconded by several
others.
** IPV6 ROUTER ADVERTISEMENT DNS RESOLVER OPTION **
Luc Beloeil made a very fast presentation about the IPv6 router
advertisement DNS resolver option. The presentation is found in the
meeting archives.
See presentation for details.
There was a comment from the audience that DHCP service often is found
in the upstream router anyhow, so why not use it?
** IPV6 EXTENSIONS FOR DNS PLUG AND PLAY **
Syam Madanapalli made a presentation regarding IPv6 Extensions for DNS
Plug and Play. His proposal, called 6DNAC has three steps:
- domain name generation
- duplicate domain name detection
- domain name registration
that were animated in the presentation.
** CONFIGURING DEVICES FOR DNS **
Ralph Droms make a presentation about configuring devices for DNS .
The presentation is found in the
meeting archives.
See presentation for details.
** DISCUSSION **
Alain Durand: Please clarify: What happens if you have DHCPv6 and RA
at the same time on same segment? Does this work?
Ralph Droms: No, I haven't tried. Have to think bout it.
Alain: Will it create a problem?
Ralph: If network administrators do the the right thing - no. If not,
it might. It may cause unpredictable behaviour.
Pekka Savola: What are the processes to move forward from here? We
should first think carefully about in which direction we want to go,
and then set up design team.
Bob Hinden: I want to defend my presentation: the name resolution
method using names like ftp... and www... was not intended to be
the perfect solution to service location problem.
Dave Meyer: I still haven't heard why DHCP is NOT the solution to
this.
Olafur Gudmundson: Ditto. Use DHCP! It's small and it's easy. Get over
it!
Matt Ford(?): Please no design team. We need this now, and a design
team will take too long.
<Unknown>: The method depends on type of network infrastructure. There
could be ways to do this using PPP options.
Rob Austein: I hear different signals from the PPP group.
<First name> Thomas: Non-DHCP stuff can be used for ad-hoc networks.
<Unknown>: In what way are the proposed options different from DynDNS?
Rob: They create names out of blue to have some thing to register.
Alain: The unsolicited RA message is one-to-many. One message reaches
all clients on the segment. The DHCP proposals lead to bilateral
exchanges that involve at least two-packets per client.
Rob: The security is still an issue. End client needs to verify
signatures, so it needs NTP.
Randy Bush, AD hat on: Please hum: DHCP vs. auto-discovery.
Dave: not conclusive.
Rob: DHCP attractive: client just sends, and just receives.
Ted Lemon: Someone mentioned reliability issues in DHCP, but that
doesn't apply to stateless DHCP in IPv6, since that is a different
animal. Don't compare the two.
Ralph Droms: DHCP "light" is not different from DHCP, it is a subset
thereof.
Dave: We have two classes of proposals: DHCP vs. discovery.
Ted: You have to have a DHCP client anyhow on the client side. Why not
use it for DNS discovery.
Ralph: I don't think the O bit=0 means *DON'T* do DHCP.
Dave: We will take the discussion to the list.
** A SUGGESTED SCHEME FOR DNS RESOLUTION OF NETWORKS AND GATEWAYS **
The author was not present. This agenda item was skipped.
** CONSIDERATIONS FOR DNS RESOURCE RECORDS **
The author was not present. This agenda item was skipped.
** Problems with the .LOCAL TLD **
Daniel Karrenberg
The root server operators have been observing large quantities of
queries for names in the .LOCAL and .LOCALHOST top level domains. At
certain points in time and topology up to 1/3 of the query load. If
anything else thatn root name servers were hit by this type of data
stream, it would be called a DOS attack. :-) What can we do about
this? For now: just answer. In the future we might want not to answer,
but that is a decision that cannot be taken by the root name server
operators. An alternative is to delegate them to query sinks (... and
eventually to get the clients fixed).
Akira Kato has written a draft that addresses these issues. Daniel
asked the chairs 1) what the status of the draft is, and 2) how to
proceed.
Rob: Kato's draft was presented in San Francisco (56th IETF), but at
the time it was so new new that not no one had had an informed
opinion. Nothing has happened since. Also: it might create a dangerous
precedence.
Please hum: WG item (intending a BCP) or not? Result: WG item!
** OUTSTANDING ISSUES IN draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-02.txt **
Alain Durand talked briefly about outstanding issues in
draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-issues-02.txt. It's almost ready for last
call. Remaining issues: what do about reverse domain space, especially
prepopulation? Another revision with focus on reverse prepopulation is
planned.
** DS UPDATE IN PARENT **
Mohsen Souissi
DNSSEC is getting more and more operational. Test beds in different
places. What about update DS in parent? We need operational
requirements before working.
Randy, AD hat on: This is one of the main focuses of the group! If not
interested there will be consequences ... ;-) Degenerate case:
root key management.
It was found to be a suitable WG item. :-)
The meeting was closed.
#----------------------------------------------------------------------
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