Re: Minneapolis - agenda items please.

[Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>]

[ again, sorry for the metaphoric 'you' ]

> I don't care whether we're on the same planet. I only care whether we
> both claim to be on *the* Internet, and the criteria for that should
> be that we share the namespace. All of it.

when one of us *chooses* to be behind a partition, they are knowingly
not on the Internet.  many consequences flow from that.

> As the v4/v6 transport discussions show, the namespace is really what
> matters to define the Internet. Not shared transport. And therefore
> (almost *by definition*) not identical reachability.

yup.  and when one of us leaves the Internet, the namespace will most
probably be different.

i suspect this is the core of our difference.

i see it as our responsibility to see that v4 and v6 transports are just
different transports on the same interney.

i see it as 'your' responsibility to live with the altered physics when
you, irregardless of transport, *leave* the internet by moving behind
a firm boundary.

> I agree to consenting adult part, but I do not agree that split-DNS
> everywhere, as an attempt at painting over the semi-reachability
> problem, minimizes entropy.

maybe not in the short term.  but in the long term, once you go down the
path of accepting chaos, it only gets worse.  heat death of internet
predicted. news at eleven. :-)

> * DNS is about the namespace and it's coherency. 
> * The transport layer is about reachability.  
> * The application layer is about coping with lack of reachability.

[ i don't think i buy this last splat ]

> By trying to solve this in DNS, couldn't it be that you're working in
> the wrong layer?

no.  i think where we differ is that i really think that when you go
behind a firewall, or something else that changes visibility, you have
left the internet.  if you then want to communicate to the internet,
it is your responsibility to compensate for all the wierdnesses which
you have chosen to impose.  it should not become everyone else's
problem.

i am not trying to solve anything in the dns.  i am asking you not to
leak your problem *into* the dns.

[ btw, i thing this is a useful argument to have.  thanks ]

randy